 | CONCERTO
Interactive Chat |
CONCERTO & CIVITAS II Chat Registrants Contact Details (26 Kb PDF)
| STATISTICS | |
|
Duration of Discussion: 1 hour Number of Participants: 18 active (asking questions) Countries of Participants: Argentina, Belgium, France, Germany, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Spain, Sweden, UK, Ukraine Total Number of Q/As & Comments: 187 Topics Discussed: |
|
| BACKGROUND TO THE DISCUSSION | |
| This online chat on CONCERTO on 26 June 2003 was organised to enable potential project proposers to discuss the programe and issues raised during the Information Day which took place on 19 June 2003. | |
| PARTICIPANTS | |
| European Commission Directorate-General for Energy & Transport | |
| Sylvain De Royer | TREN-concerto@ec.europa.int |
| Jean-Marie Bemtgen | TREN-concerto@ec.europa.int |
| William Gillet | TREN-concerto@ec.europa.int |
| Alexandros Kotronaros | TREN-concerto@ec.europa.int |
| Henry Pauwels | TREN-concerto@ec.europa.int |
| Ismo Gronroos-Sakkala | Responsible for ManagEnergy, Unit D3 - tren-MANAGE-ENERGY@ec.europa.int |
| European Commission SCIC | |
| Jukka Savo | Technology Advisor for ManagEnergy virtual events - scic-newtech@ec.europa.int |
| ManagEnergy management team | |
| Christopher Waldén | ManagEnergy management team, Sweden - info@managenergy.net |
| Katy Hall | ManagEnergy webmaster, UK - webmaster@managenergy.net |
| ManagEnergy Registrants | |
| <Mark> | unknown |
| Isabel Bascones | Tecnatom, Spain - ibascones@tecnatom.es |
| Jennifer Coy | Lancashire County Council, Environment Directorate, UK - jennifer.coy@env.lancscc.gov.uk |
| Ed Dearnley | Severn Wye Energy Agency, UK - ed@swea.co.uk |
| Ralf Goldmann | Berlin Energy Agency, Germany - goldmann@berliner-e-agentur.de |
| Jan Grundmann | ProCon GmbH, Germany - grundmann@procon-chemnitz.de |
| Zinko Heimo | ZW Energiteknik AB, Sweden - zinko@algonet.se |
| Marcin Janicki | Technical University of Lodz, Poland - janicki@dmcs.p.lodz.pl |
| <SW_JANSU> | Sweden |
| Thierry Libaert | Electricite de France, France- thierry.libaert@edf.fr |
| Volodymyr Maslych | Ukrainian Biomass Association, Ukraine - uba@ukr.net |
| Julio Medina Castillo | Castillo de Locubín (Jaén), Spain - juliomedinacastillo@hotmail.com |
| Klaus Meyer | Energie Impuls OWL e.V., Ostwestfalen-Lippe, Germany - info@energie-impuls-owl.de |
| José Oliveira | CEEETA, Portugal - jose.oliveira@ceeeta.pt |
| Hernán Raffo | CADEA, Argentina - cadea@energias.org.ar |
| Pedro Segovia | ITEBE, France - pedro.segovia@itebe.org |
| Dan Ilie Teodoreanu | ICPE - Research Institute for Electrical Engineering, Romania - danteo@icpe.ro |
| Daniel West | Center for Solar Energy and Hydrogen Research, Germany - daniel.west@zsw-bw.de |
| DISCUSSION TRANSCRIPT | |
| Welcome | |
| Ismo Gronroos-Sakkala | Welcome to everybody from myself and my colleagues at the European Commission and from ManagEnergy. We can start discussing Concerto issues now if you like. The chat will include a few advance questions from people who cannot join us today, as well as live questions from participants. |
| CONCERTO Work Programme and Calls | |
| Isabel Bascones | Is there a specific text (Work programme) for CONCERTO, or is the Work Programme the same as for TREN "SHORT - MEDIUM TERM"? |
| Alexandros Kotronaros | The technical description of the CONCERTO text is published in the Work programme (priority 6.1 - sustainable energy systems - page 10) [Ed: Work Programme [SUSTDEV - Energy] on the following webpage fp6.cordis.lu/fp6/call_details.cfm?CALL_ID=75# ] The legal text was published on the 17.6.2003. |
| Jean-Marie Bemtgen | If you have a somewhat elaborated proposal, send a summary (not more than 2 pages please) to our email address TREN-concerto@ec.europa.int We will give you feedback in a few days. The colleagues of the Commission to whom you can talk are (alphabetic order): J.M. BEMTGEN, S. de ROYER, W. GILLETT, K. KOTRONAROS, H. PAUWELS, G. WILLBOLD. Each colleague knows CONCERTO very well and has a slightly different area of expertise. Depending on the key focus of your ideas, one or other of us will answer. |
| Jan Grundmann | Where can I find information about the kind of community and the kind of projects, especially renewable energies systems that can be included? |
| Jean-Marie Bemtgen | This concerns the whole of CONCERTO. Please see the video recordings (English, French and German), audio recordings (Polish, Hungarian and Czech) and 87 slides (English only) about CONCERTO that you can find on the Info Day page. |
| <SW_JANSU> | Will there be another chat like this on CONCERTO at later stage? This is a good and quick way of asking questions... and more will come as we our work progresses. |
| Henry Pauwels | If there is sufficient demand, but it seems to be unlikely. You also can put question in our permanent mailbox: TREN-concerto@ec.europa.int A second Info day on Concerto will be organised on 24 September 2003 in Brussels. |
| Zinko Heimo | Is it possible for a city to be involved in CIVITAS II and CONCERTO at the same time and make a coordinated proposal to both programmes. Will this give added value to the project? |
| Jean-Marie Bemtgen | Yes it is, and this would give an added value. Sustainable development is more than just energy use. Transport and mobility are key elements. CIVITAS and CONCERTO have one point in common: first prevention, then clean supply, prevention of transport and of stationary use in the tertiary sector. |
| Pedro Segovia | Is this initiative for making big integrated projects with big budgets? |
| Alexandros Kotronaros | CONCERTO indeed will use the INTEGRATED PROJECTS TOOL and we expect large-scale projects (of the order of 5 Millios euro support) per community |
| Selecting Partners and Communities | |
| <Mark> | How, can I find out about potential organisations putting forward a proposal to CONCERTO? |
| Henry Pauwels | Join the next CONCERTO day to be organised on 24 Sept 2003 in Brussels in order to meet potential proposers. |
| Katy Hall | You can use the ManagEnergy Partner Search facility to add your details to this site and/or find details of others looking for partners. Concerto reports, including Partner Search details are listed on the CONCERTO index page of this site. |
| Daniel West | I am not quite clear on what relationship the partners in the CONCERTO project should have? It was said "...to encourage the sharing of policies, plans and experiences between communities." Does this not lead to three similar projects in one CONCERTO project? |
| Jean-Marie Bemtgen | Good question and difficult answer. It depends. There is added value in having a very similar approach in different climate zones. There can be added value in similar climates, but different technologies, etc. |
| Julio Medina Castillo | So, do partners need to have different technologies? |
| <SW_JANSU> | But different climatic "regions" often have very different conditions requiring almost exclusive solutions? |
| Jean-Marie Bemtgen | There are several possibilities on how to get complimentary, cross-fertilisation, cost savings, etc. We leave it up to the consortium to convince us that there is added value. |
| Isabel Bascones | Can a proposal with only one "Community" be eligible? |
| Jean-Marie Bemtgen | Legally yes, if other suppliers from two different countries are involved (FP6: 3 countries minimum). But such a proposal would not pass within the competition with other proposals who have a significant EU dimension (evaluation criteria) |
| Klaus Meyer | Is it necessary to accumulate all the parts of the project in one specified part of our region or can we develop different project parts at various locations in our region? |
| Alexandros Kotronaros | The focus should be the community. As long as you have 3 good community projects in a proposal, it is up to you to see what kind of technologies can be used to serve the communities. |
| Klaus Meyer | Is it also possible to have different smaller projects, all joined within a regional RES-plan for CONCERTO? i.e. Energy saving programmes with house building association in one village, biomass use in another village in our region? |
| Alexandros Kotronaros | The "community" does not necessarily have to be a village or city only. A whole region or area, as long as it can be well defined, could represent a "community". On the other hand, you should see if the measures taken in this area have a measurable impact that can be demonstrated. |
| <SW_JANSU> | How will "satellite-projects" be defined within a consortium and later in the applications? On the 18th we were told that a few satellite projects should/could join although they hardly would get funded. Is it recommended to get a few satellite projects on at an early stage? |
| Henry Pauwels | Satellite communities can get a limited support for their participation. It is recommended to have a balanced number of satellite communities - two or three! |
| Marcin Janicki | Advance question: Could universities as large energy consumers be regarded as communities eligible for CONCERTO funding. |
| Jean-Marie Bemtgen | University campuses can be quite large energy consumers and behave like a community. Thus the answer is yes. We would recommend that the question of integration of the campus with the city is addressed. There is no need to make significant improvements in the campus and then use even more energy through higher use of private cars. |
| José Oliveira | Can we consider eligible for CONCERTO a group of 16 small villages of a specific area, that are already connected under a kind of network? |
| Alexandros Kotronaros | Yes, if you can draw a geographical boundary around these villages so they can all be regarded as one "community". |
| Klaus Meyer | Hello José Oliveira, I think we have a similar region and I am interested in contacting you (Outline Project Description number 8). Our homepage: www.energie-impuls-owl.de, email: info@energie-impuls-owl.de |
| Jennifer Coy | Advance question from Lancashire County Council, UK: Would a partnership with 3 communities in different member states involve one community taking the lead? |
| Jean-Marie Bemtgen | Yes, one community will have to take the lead. |
| Jennifer Coy | Will smaller scale projects be considered? |
| Jean-Marie Bemtgen | We want the scale to be significant. Ideally about 10 000 inhabitants or equivalent sizes for industry or business parks. |
| Jennifer Coy | What aspects of the project will the funding cover i.e. staffing, development, dissemination etc? |
| Jean-Marie Bemtgen | Costs of socio-economic research, dissemination, monitoring, etc. are eligible and key elements. The construction is for us just a necessary task in order to move to the more important tasks of how replicating the positive results on the largest scale possible. |
| Ed Dearnley | Advance question from: Severn Wye Energy Agency, UK: What kind of communities is CONCERTO aimed at? Can CONCERTO projects assist communities who currently have an advanced level of sustainable energy infrastructure and activity, those who have a low level of sustainable energy activity, or a range of communities between the two? |
| Jean-Marie Bemtgen | Yes, of course. CONCERTO is about using energy in a sustainable way and minimising the need for supply. Green energy should be used in a green way. |
| Pedro Segovia | We represent a lot of communities in 15 European countries, we are used to developing several actions, we develop quality charts for wood fuels and for combustors. Do we have to ask all the communities to present the same project and to subcontract us? Who is the one who presents the project? I thought that we, an association of enterprises, communities, universities, were the ideal choice to coordinate this kind of integrated projects. |
| Alexandros Kotronaros | It is better to identify some of these communities, which are committed to objectives relevant to CONCERTO and try to fit your technology in the project. It is not possible for all of them to have a good project for CONCERTO. |
| Pedro Segovia | So what you suggest to do is to look in all our communities, find objectives eligible for CONCERTO and redact a proposal to promote quality and efficiency in those communities. The aim of our organisation is to detect all the good practices and share them within the different communities |
| Jean-Marie Bemtgen | The most appropriate partner should take the lead. Your proposal should write one chapter explaining why you consider that this is the most appropriate management structure. |
| Project Categories and Topics | |
| <SW_JANSU> | I have a few questions, beginning with: The definitions on "Urban", "Industrial", "Island", " Rural" are not always clear cut. Are these definitions important in the sense that a Consortium must be from within the same category? So, how similar (or dissimilar) should/could the three sub-projects within a consortium be? |
| Jean-Marie Bemtgen | There is no need to have a clear definition. We have just given a few typical examples. I agree that there are more grey zones than clear black or white. What counts is the performance obtained. What idea do you have specifically in mind? We could discuss your case. |
| <SW_JANSU> | I represent a project that was defined "Industrial" during the Info Day but was grouped with "Islands" during discussion. We thought we'd rather be grouped with other Rural or similar projects as our project is within a high performance community. Could we join up with e.g. an Island community? |
| Alexandros Kotronaros | In principle yes, as long as you do not exceed the limit of 49.9% of the TOTAL PROJECTS BUDGET. Nevertheless, it is important to mention it in your application for CONCERTO. |
| Jean-Marie Bemtgen | At the info day, you were not grouped. We suggested that you could talk to all participants, and suggested some that may be specifically of interest. You should choose the partners you want to. There are no prescriptions from the Commission. We just behave like a "Club de rencontres" [Ed: "dating agency"], but we don't force you to marry! |
| Daniel West | Is it required to have all three issues included: large-scale generation of renewables, poly-generation and eco-buildings? Or is it up to the consortium to define the main focus? |
| Henry Pauwels | It is not compulsory to have the 3 issues. However a coherent package of RES and DMS must be included. |
| Alexandros Kotronaros | It is not compulsory to have poly-generation but renewables and energy saving measures are required. Eco-buildings are necessary anyway to demonstrate the energy saving in cities. |
| Isabel Bascones | You can save energy by other means, not only using eco-buildings. |
| Jean-Marie Bemtgen | Yes, you are right. What is important is to take measures that bring a high share of energy savings. It is of utmost importance that the Community has a high performance. In other words, green energy needs to be used in a green way. |
| Pedro Segovia | I represent an association of promotion of wood energy. We have detected several actions in different levels that help to the development of wood energy sector. We have already been in INTERREG frame with environment 30 partners from different countries. Do CONCERTO projects finance development and promotion actions for renewable energies between different countries? |
| Jean-Marie Bemtgen | No, this is really not the aim of Concerto. Concerto is not about energy supply. It is about high-energy performance communities. Prevention is first principle. Ideally you would need no energy at all. If energy is needed, it should be fully integrated into the demand management: self-supply and be as clean and efficient as possible. Concerto is not about promotion of wood and biomass. You should see other programmes, such as e.g. EIE: Energie Intelligente - Europe [IEE: Intelligent Energy - Europe] |
| Pedro Segovia | What I say is that we don't do pure research, but promotion of wood energy. That's why I ask it because CONCERTO is financed by FP6. Maybe we can integrate the promotion and development part inside a research project. |
| Henry Pauwels | Yes you can join a CONCERTO project if the partnership thinks they need to make the promotion of wood, however it is not the priority. Our priority is the promotion of the CONCERTO concept. |
| Pedro Segovia | Wwhat we do is some actions to promote wood energy, also examples of efficiency. For example, we choose the best efficiency practices and we include them in a "wood energy road" and we diffuse this information through all European countries. Our philosophy is knowledge sharing. |
| Jean-Marie Bemtgen | In this case, you would not "sell" the project to the Commission, but to a Community that needs your services. The Community would integrate it into a full Concerto proposal. |
| Daniel West | Are traffic-related measures (e.g. alternative motor concepts and biofuels) accepted in CONCERTO if they are part of a bunch of measurements? |
| Alexandros Kotronaros | These could be eligible if fully integrated in CONCERTO, but should not be the focus of the projects and should not use a significant part of the budget. Otherwise CIVITAS II is better placed on these transport issues. |
| Participation by non-EU Countries | |
| Thierry Libaert | Advance question: 1) Can we have a project in Switzerland? 2) Can we have projects in towns already sponsored in the 5th PCRD? |
| Jean-Marie Bemtgen | Switzerland has not yet signed the cooperation agreement with FP6, but we expect this to happen in the next weeks. Then Swiss partners are eligible partners. Their costs will be paid for by the Swiss government (if not yet signed) or by the EC if Switzerland has paid their contribution to FP6, but this should not be a problem for the consortium. |
| Volodymyr Maslych | What are the possibilities of financing by the EU funds and the participation in EU programs for Ukrainian organizations working in the field of biogas plants? |
| Henry Pauwels | Sorry, it is not possible to directly fund Ukrainian organisations through the FP6 programme. |
| Volodymyr Maslych | In what way can Ukrainian organizations participate in EU programmes? |
| Henry Pauwels | Ukrainians have a cooperation agreement with the EU. They can participate in a project but the support is limited by the necessity of having a Ukrainian partner. This is a very specific case to assess. |
| Hernán Raffo | Advance question from Argentina: what is the help to the third world about renewable energy? |
| Alexandros Kotronaros | I do not know of a specific programme on RES only, possibly in the framework of other development programmes. |
| Dan Ilie Teodoreanu | Is Romania eligible to be a main contractor? |
| Henry Pauwels | Yes. All Accession Member States are considered as Members States. |
| Participation of ESCOs and Eligibility of Costs | |
| Ralf Goldmann | I have a question similar to one asked during the Info Day. The use of ESCOs is encouraged. This would mean, that after the project has started we would make a call for tender to select the best ESCO for performing the services. This ESCO would make the investment and thus the investment will not be in the accounts of the project partners. Can we include the ESCO as additional partner in a later stage of the project or how can the investment be eligible cost. |
| Jean-Marie Bemtgen | The aim of an ESCO is to make money by delivering the energy services needed by the community. Why would an ESCO need public funding? This would have to be discussed case by case. |
| <SW_JANSU> | What is an "ESCO"? |
| Jean-Marie Bemtgen | ESCO = Energy Savings Company [Ed: or Energy Service Company] |
| Ralf Goldmann | You could also ask "why would the municipality need the public funding?" The ESCO delivers normal services and now we want them to make additional services, thus the cost will be higher and these costs should be covered in the same way as the investment is done by the municipality. |
| Jean-Marie Bemtgen | Yes, you are right: we don't subsidise communities to do their homework. We don't pay for bricks. If a municipality behaves like a promoter of a community, and does tasks foreseen in CONCERTO, then these costs may be eligible. Eligibility of costs is a key question and needs to be addressed case by case. For an eligibility of costs, you can find more info on the FP6 web site www.cordis.lu/fp6/ |
| Alexandros Kotronaros | If it is not necessary, that is all right. It is not compulsory to use more public funding. ESCOs could participate in the CONCERTO project and provide the remaining financing. |
| External Funding | |
| Klaus Meyer | Is it relevant, from which sources the 65% of the own resources are? Is it possible to have financial support from national programs for the Concerto project, too? |
| Alexandros Kotronaros | You can use other public funds other than CONCERTO up to a limit of 49.9% of the TOTAL PROJECT BUDGET |
| Klaus Meyer | Does one's own manpower count as part of own financial resources? |
| Alexandros Kotronaros | Contribution in kind is not an eligible cost. Nevertheless, as long as the manpower is in a payroll of a company, and can be proved this cost can be eligible and will be supported. |
| Audits | |
| Isabel Bascones | Could you clarify the audits issue - is it necessary to audit each partner, each year of the project duration? |
| Jean-Marie Bemtgen | In FP6, all annual financial reports should be certified by appropriate accountants. This is valid for all FP6 projects, not just for CONCERTO. |
| Isabel Bascones | Yes, but if we have to audit each partner each year, the audit budget could be up to 3-4% of the total budget. |
| Alexandros Kotronaros | It seems unlikely that the audit budget will be as high, given the important budget of the CONCERTO projects (of the order of 10-15M euros support per contract). Nevertheless, the audit requirement is applicable to all FP6 contracts - it is not only for CONCERTO. |